EOBR rule could come by September, says Ferro

By James Jaillet on

eobr electronic logFederal Motor Carrier Safety Administration Administrator Anne Ferro said she expects a rule mandating the use of electronic onboard recorders to be proposed by September of this year.

Ferro and other Department of Transportation administrators testified Thursday, March 14, at a hearing held by the House transportation committee’s Highways and Transit Subcommittee, where they were asked to update subcommittee members on progress on initiatives and rules required by 2012’s MAP-21 highway funding law.

MAP-21 requires FMCSA to implement an electronic log mandate by the end of the law’s 27-month life.

As a follow up to Ferro’s testimony Rep. Thomas Petri (R-Ore.) — the subcommittee’s chairman — questioned the rigidity of a “one size fits all” EOBR rule that doesn’t offer flexibility for individual situations. Ferro said she and the agency have taken that into account, and a uniform electronic logging rule “is a very strong one as it pertains to safety and ensuring everyone’s operating on a level playing field.”

Most companies that switch to electronic logs switch “very effectively and very profitably,” Ferro said. “They’re finding it’s a very, very efficient mechanism” for tracking on-duty status. “And over time, sometimes almost immediately, drivers prefer it as well.”

Ferro said four factors comprise the rule: Technical specifications used for EOBR devices, ensuring drivers are not harassed, ensuring any support documents and paperwork are reduced and streamlined and the EOBR requirement itself.

Changing topics slightly, subcommittee ranking member Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.) questioned directly after Petri the impact of detention time on hours-of-service and what FMCSA planned to do to compensate.

Ferro said the agency is currently studying detention time, and results are expected to be had by 2015. She also said provisions in MAP-21 allow the agency to “take action” against a shipper or receiver that coerces a driver to operate outside of their hours-of-service requirements either by economic leverage or even physical harm.

Later in the hearing, Rep. Markwayne Mullen (R-Okla.) pressed Ferro on why the agency denied the American Trucking Associations’ request to delay the effective date of the upcoming hours-of-service (July 1). Mullen said that FMCSA itself estimates the industry will share a $300 million cost on training and implementing the rule.

ATA had asked FMCSA to delay the rule’s implementation until a court case between the two — and pertaining to the hours rule — had been completed, so that fleets know what exactly they should be training employees how to do.

Ferro said that the agency had denied ATA’s request because it centered around the court case — a hearing for which is set to take place March 15 — rather than the rule itself, which was issued 15 months ago.

Mullen took exception to FMCSA’s response to ATA, in which the agency said ATA had not “demonstrated good cause to delay” the effective date. “What is $300 million?” Mullen said .”I’m a small business owner, and the only reason I sit in front of you is because I got frustrated with things just like that. It seems very simple — Why can’t we just get an extension.”

Ferro said that the rule is about safety, and she’s confident it will be upheld in court. “At the core of this rule is safety on our highways, for all of the people who travel in a truck or in a bus and those in or around those vehicles.”

Per MAP-21, the agency is also working on establishing a drug and alcohol clearinghouse that will provide fleets pre-employment information on driver applicants about prior drug and alcohol tests and test refusals. “So they can thereby avoid hiring someone not qualified to operate a commercial vehicle,” Ferro said.

A proposed clearinghouse rule is expected this spring.

Also in the works is research pertaining to 34-hour restart provisions, examining insurance minimums and “assessing crash rates under new agricultural exemptions” that went live today, Ferro said.

Victor Mendez, Administrator of the Federal Highway Administration, updated the subcommittee on the required study on truck size and weight limits.

FHWA, per MAP-21, is studying the impact of increasing allowable truck weight to 97,000 pounds on six-axle configurations. Also included in the study are looks at “longer combination vehicles.”

“We will provide a data driven, objective analysis looking at issues that have to be balanced,” Mendez said. “Like highway safety, the impact on infrastructure, transportation of goods throughout our nation in a safe manner — how that plays out economically in vehicle configuration.”

Mendez said FHWA will be hiring a consultant to help with the study and taking input from all stakeholders.

James Jaillet

James Jaillet is the News Editor for CCJ and Overdrive. Reach him at jjaillet@randallreilly.com.

78 comments
climatetrans
climatetrans

It looks like if they want to monitor someone, why don't they monitor the dealings of the government. I've talked to several drivers who was forced by their company to install a EOBR. These drivers are having to take brakes when their not tired, and have to drive and fight sleep, because if they stop and sleep, it will ruin their 14 hour rule. So more drivers are driving tired, and are being forced to sleep at different time periods, from what their use to. I bet the moron's who make these rules, get to sleep when their tired.

singh90
singh90

isn't gun violence more sever problem than truck drivers log books? so many laws so many rules for drivers but so minimum for shippers and brokers? why? why there is no minimum amount to be paid by brokers to companies(small)? DOT trying to track every bit of distance a driver travel. why don't we put GPS tracking devices in GUNS so that anytime when GUN is near schools, hospitals, theaters, or government building authorities get alerts? now that would definitely increased public safety but it wont happen because our REPS need votes they don't care about truckers because their voting capacity isn't that big matter. most of the accidents are between cars or small vehicles and when big rig is involved 80% of the time small vehicle driver is at fault. so why are we punishing drivers with more severe laws, rules? maybe 50 years from now FMCSA will require drivers to list all personal activities including eating, drinking, pissing, showering, watching tv, sex, to determined if driver had enough rest and is good to drive truck. why our PRESIDENT DOES NOT DO LOG BOOK ? it should be used to determined if he had enough rest to make sure he's fit and his thinking ability is not affected to make core decisions. truck drivers run truck only but our president RUN the country! so who needs more rest and strict rules for resting?

Escape44
Escape44

Shipper and consignee should fit in somewhere, that is where the hours are burned.

ELD manufacturers are probably lobbying.

Next is the weight limit increase to 97,000# which I am sure the equipment people are pushing. And this is safety?

Shipper will want same rate. ref 48/53 ft trailers.

Crony capitalism.

Blue mule
Blue mule

Well with all the things that I have witnessed with the e-logs, not only are you taking money out of the professional drivers pockets due to shortening the amount of miles ran each week, and the pay in cents-per-mile has not increased, all this is going to do is pass down and inflatable cost to the companies, shippers/receivers/transporters, which in turn will be passed on to the consumer, in an already unstable economic situation.  And what I would like to know is how do they expect to have the top drivers want to have a job where you will earn less than min. wage to be gone on the road for 2-3 weeks, and why is it that only cdl drivers have e-logs, why not put it out to the whole country so we are all on a level playing field?  Lets put the soccer mom who is up at 6 a.m. getting the kids off to school and then beginning her day as she feeds the kids, runs them to school, runs errands, goes to lunch with friends, then to the supermarket, then picks up the kids and takes them to whatever extra-curricular activities, then runs home starts dinner, goes back to pick the kids up, I mean realistically she is over her hours by the time she picks them up from school, but she gets to drive and do whatever is needed without any repercussions.  Now lets get onto the local law enforcement officers that pull a double shift, or state police, when does there hours of service end?  How long can they work in one shift, who fines them, who regulates them????  What about all the military personnel??? I remember when I was in the U.S. Army and there were no Hours of Service,  we worked until we were told to go home!  What about the school bus drivers that drive in the morning then go work all day the go back and drive in the afternoon,  then lets talk about factory workers;  Heavy equipment operators;  I mean the list goes on and on, so lets just put everyone on them and we will all be equal!!!!!

mapii0914
mapii0914

What REALLY needs to be happening, is PROPER TRAINING for new drivers! As professional drivers, we've all seen it...new driver smoking brakes downhill, in a gear way too high, speeding around turns, and all because of the "DRIVER FACTORIES" at the large fleet companies. THAT is where the REAL SAFETY issues are coming from...not from a professional driver. WE know the rules, know our HOS, and our own fatigue level. WHY DO I NEED A BABYSITTER?!!!? 

 

FMCSA - Put forward some requirements on training these morons, coming out of these truck driving schools, and large companies with their driver factories!

 

"I" have a perfect CVSA record, because I do my best to keep it that way...not because I got lucky rolling down the last 6% grade!

curtis stefaniak
curtis stefaniak

can't someone invent a sleepy driver alert that can watch to see if falling alseep at the wheel then let out a warning similar to speed alert now used on some GPS?.

Gary New
Gary New

Oh yes, "what is 300million in cost", this is coming from an administration responsible for a 16 trillion dollar deficit, I guess $300million is considered "chump" change, I'm a small fleet owner (10 units) and consider safety as a prime consideration in my operation, replacing brakes, tires, air lines, and doing preventative maintenance prior to regulation point of  wear occurring. We are a regional operation that has a ZERO tolerance for HOS infractions, that being said, I am in the process of installing EOBR in my trucks and plan to have this completed by September, but as always, the ones trying to play by the rules are lumped in the same "tank" as the bad fish.  Twenty years of being in business all I see is the consumer having to pay for the mistakes of the few..

benjahpete
benjahpete

In the end we all will have to comply, at least for now. We're going to lose money and some small companies will fold but maybe that's what it will take for us to wake up and unite as truckers and shutdown for a day or 2. That sounds like UNION talk and for some that's a bad word but we're about to see why unions were necessary in the first place.

bigred713
bigred713

Can anyone not see what is happening here. This whole new chain of events is spelled out in this months edition of "THE TRUCKER." I`m not sure if the big companies are in on all this and it seems that they aren`t as they are trying to get the new HOS postponed and trying to get the new "restart" stopped.

The new restart will "under the guise of safety" quote "reduce fatigue, resulting in an average of 12 hours reduction in driving time weekly."

Further down it states this will result in creating 16,600 new jobs mostly in the trucking industry <<"quote"

It`s apparant that this Government wants to put even more unqualified drivers on the road and reduce our hours even more which reduces our wages even more. So, my question is what are these big companies gonna get from this and why are they even playing along.

 

bigred713
bigred713

log doc.....Pull the pre loaded trailers, the relay drivers the fuel surcharge from gov from the big cos. and see what they say....90% us are small owners and if this goes the way they want they know we are dead in the water,,,,,,

bigred713
bigred713

log doc>>>>is being forced to drive in any condition any different even if legal, That is what we have to do under these rules you gys want in, any weather, etc if we want to make money,,so, my point is, we are not an 8 to 5 job,,we gotta have flexibility to even make it in this business and these rules are not flexible,,,Like i said fix the other problems, loading, unloding, parking,,the cart is being put before the horse here,,and i never said i drove ilegally but i have some flexibility with a log book,,,,Does not have to be illegal, i can leave a dock and go park 10 miles and finish my break now without a e-log charging me time,,,,FLEXIBILITY

bigred713
bigred713

To Johnny Cargo,,,,,There is nothing simpler than filling out a log book by hand,,takes me less than a minute.....Your drivers that havent ever used one of course think that the E_log is easier,,The old drivers that now use them are broke because they don`t make any money sitting in a parking lot all week. There is a mandatory 10 hour break after 14 hour rule. Basic elementary math (10 x 7) is 70 hours, CORRECT? PLus the 30 min rule coming now after every 8 hours (7x..5) is 1.75 hours , corrrect?,,,,well add them together and it comes to 71.5 hours, 3 days is 72 hours(24x3),,,,,,,,In my calculations that is 3 complete days so we actually get to work 4 days a week,,,,This is less than any other job anywhere in the world,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Like i said, i hope this is thouroughly hashed out in court or maybe the drivers will get a set and we stand up for our right to work....

bigred713
bigred713

To the LOG DOCTOR>>>you don`t have a clue what my last comment said do you,,,,,?>>A person is gonna do what it takes to keep their possessions, although you make the rules and if we gotta abide by them>>>>>>.We(or most us) are gonna pay our bills so, we are gonna drive when we can come rain,snow,ice,tornados,hurricanes etc,,,,,NOW what part do you not understand that WE will take chances because we are now pushed by YOUR fed gov TIME CARD as we GET PAID BY THE MILE......NO drive, NO money

bigred713
bigred713

the log doctor>>>I operate safely under any conditions but you are missing what i`m saying man.......We get paid by the mile, and if we don`t drive we dont make anything,,,,,DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I`M SAYING,,,Apparantly you SAFETY guys on here are fighting that these new rules are safe,,,,well, i beg to differ,,,,,, Every truck driver in the US is gonna push the limit to pay their bills and these rules make us all unsafe as we will take chances to make our payments,,,,,,I don`t want to hear this crap from someone that isn`t actively driving or someone that just got their cdl... AS YOU AND THEY DON`T HAVE  CLUE WHAT WE REALLY DO,,APPARANTLY,;;;;I just hope enough real truck drivers that "have a clue" what these rules mean show up in Washington to tell the truth about these things...I`m done as too many safety/money oriented big company know it alls are watching here. 

bigred713
bigred713

i did and do click the reply box david

bigred713
bigred713

Like I said earlier,,,With this e-log, 10 hour break, 14 hour rule you are FORCED to drive whenever conditions are bad, I`ts time the whole story was told, It`s not safe for you, me, especially youngr drivers, your mother, father, or your children as weather and traffic conditions will now have no influence when we stop or drive because these rules force you to drive period,,,,,,,,,You don`t sound like a truck driver or you are for sure not a seasoned one to take up for these new rules as it`s the most unsafe rules we have ever had pressed on us,,,, 

Badger12
Badger12

Johnny Kardo, there is no response because it is not the EOBR's that are the issue. It is the inflexible rules they are enforcing. Until it is a 24 hour world on the shipping and recieving end, they don't work. They put drivers in unsafe situations. Not always, but enough times to make it an issue.

Johnny Kargo
Johnny Kargo

hmmm... no comments.  I guess that sums it up.

Johnny Kargo
Johnny Kargo

Would anyone be interested in hearing some feedback from a former trucker who went on to start a company that produces and sells electronic logbook and DVIR software?  

TheLogDoctor
TheLogDoctor

Here's the deal, E-Logs are here to stay, July 1st dead line may get pushed back, but it is coming. Until we have a lobby in place that can speak for our industry like it should be, then hey, we are nothing more than the money pit to assist this country in getting out of debt. As people are forced into our industry due to the economy, things will continue to change. No longer is this a profession honored, it is being regulated and dominated by na sayers that have no concept of what we sacrifice to do this job safely. (Now I will remove myself from the soap box)

bigred713
bigred713

Here`s my question>>>Do these e-logs force your drivers to drive in tornados,hurricanes,high winds,fog,ice,floods,snow, rush hour traffic???? And question number 2>>>Is this safe????

Moxie
Moxie

Gentlemen,

 

I am new to this "commenting"  posts program, and I have been reading the comments with interest.  I must comment, "that I have never seen such mutilation of the English language."  I speak in generalities, of course.  Nevertheless, and I am NOT defending any Washington politician; however, for someone to be so critical of another, and not be able to put together a coherent sentence in the process, is beyond my comprehension.   My 2 cents worth! 

Mayflowerloyalist
Mayflowerloyalist

I have read this article and the posts that followed the one thing i have yet to read about is who it is that is really pushing all these new rules ie... Swift, Werner, JB Hunt. They are the only ones with anything to gain by all the independents being pushed out. I have been around trucking since I was a baby grew up in a truck.  A strike is the right idea but getting those large trucking companies to follow would never work they would just reap the rewards of it. They would never allow there drivers to participate and those that did would be out of a job. While I don't know what the correct answer is I agree it shouldn't be written up by politicians who have never driven a truck.

Tired of the Bull
Tired of the Bull

listen up safety first! This EOBR is about running the little man out of business plain and simple, it not about safety first no more than child support is about your kids. Its all about the revenue stupid! everybody is schewing the truck driver these days and including you my friend (cash cow)

Safety First
Safety First

I sell EOBR and I hear you all out there. I understand too that you all are worried. Realistically my customers whom have our EOBR their drivers are happy they have it. Their life is much easier all automated all the time. No more sitting updating paper logs using a calculator figuring out paper work.  What you will find out is you have more time to do what you do, drive. What does a DVIR do for you? It reduces your time in Pre trip post trip. Alert your shop of issues.

No more manaul mileage log either. You guys will no longer have to be an adminastrator to your paper log. The inspector pulls you over. Guess what less stop time. More drive time less hassle.

Tired of the Bull
Tired of the Bull

Thats what  happen when drivers dont stick together, everybody telling us how to do our job. All it takes is 2 days of strike and will show that we mean business drivers. Its gonna get worst! and thats when its to late to something. I mean whats next?

tvesafety
tvesafety

 @bigred713

 Yo - BR713.  Normally I don't chime in on blogs, particularly a reply to a rant.  But since I'm researching for an upcoming fleet insurance agency seminar where we've been asked to present on CSA and telematics, I can't resist rebutting your numbers.  First of all, although I've yard jockey'd many a CMV in my career, I've never been OTR so admittedly, I cannot feel your pain in that area. 

 

On the other hand, I've been in the business for 30 years, interviewed, rode with and supervised hundreds (thousands at this point??) of drivers.  Inevitably the 80%-20% rule always prevails - call it the "Teddy Roosevelt" rule if you will.  80% of the safety rules and regs are made up to keep the 20% non-compliant drivers in line, and the rest of us have to live with it.  And before you dive into the "common sense" argument, please understand that, of the 5 senses, common is the least. 

 

Firstly - ATRI studies are showing a distinct correlation between HOS Compliance BASIC (fka "Fatigue") and a propensity for increased likelihood of collision.  Tired drivers are more likely to have collisions (I know, it's not rocket science). 

 

Secondly - your numbers are Zvengali smoke and mirror, slight of hand.  O.K. 72 hours divided by 24 hours = "3 days without pay".  Excuse me, but you're assuming you drive 3 days consecutivley (24 hours x 3) without a rest break.  In my opinion, that is not safe, and you will have a collision, and that should not be allowed.

 

Thirdly - if we do use your "formula", let's take the legal driving limit of 11 hours, multiply it times 7 days and - voila - you can drive 77 hours! (not allowed - you can only drive 70 in 8 consecutive days).  But even if this were the case and you drove 77 hours, that's almost twice as many hours as the "legal" work-week which I believe is 40 hours, before OT - no?

 

Fourthly - this is all nonsense.  If you've been in business as long as you purporte to have been, you'd know that all these numbers are bogus and fictitious.  You can bend them to whatever fashion so desired.  The only numbers that really matter are #1) can you drive the next mile safely and #2) what are you doing to prevent the next colliision?  No one (except presumably your family, as long as you don't bore them with long diatribes) cares how hard you work for a living.  So please, give all of us other working Joe's a break my friend - we all want to work less and earn more.  You are preaching to the choir.

 

My suggestion to you is to either find a driving position that pays by the hour so you don't have to drive like a maniac to "keep on earning money by the mile" - or get out of the profession entirely and lower your blood pressure.  Sorry to be so frank, but my friend, but as you so aptly have exhibited, we are all entitled to our opinion.

tvesafety
tvesafety

 @bigred713

 Yo - BR713.  Normally I don't chime in on blogs, particularly a reply to a rant.  But since I'm researching for an upcoming fleet insurance agency seminar where we've been asked to present on CSA and telematics, I can't resist rebutting your numbers.  First of all, although I've yard jockey'd many a CMV in my career, I've never been OTR so admittedly, I cannot feel your pain in that area. 

 

On the other hand, I've been in the business for 30 years, interviewed, road with and supervised hundreds (thousands at this point??) of drivers.  Inevitably the 80%-20% rule always prevails - call it the "Teddy Roosevelt" rule if you will.  80% of the safety rules and regs are made up to keep the 20% non-compliant drivers in line, and the rest of us have to live with it.  And before you dive into the "common sense" argument, please understand that, of the 5 senses, common is the least. 

 

Firstly - ATRI studies are showing a distinct correlation between HOS Compliance BASIC (fka "Fatigue") and a propensity for increased likelihood of collision.  Tired drivers are more likely to have collisions (I know, it's not rocket science). 

 

Secondly - your numbers are Zvengali smoke and mirror, slight of hand.  O.K. 72 hours divided by 24 hours = "3 days without pay".  Excuse me, but you're assuming you drive 3 days consecutivley (24 hours x 3) without a rest break.  In my opinion, that is not safe, and you will have a collision, and that should not be allowed.

 

Thirdly - if we do use your "formula", let's take the legal driving limit of 11 hours, multiply it times 7 days and - voila - you can drive 77 hours! (not allowed - you can only drive 70 in 8 consecutive days).  But even if this were the case and you drove 77 hours, that's almost twice as many hours as the "legal" work-week which I believe is 40 hours, before OT - no?

 

Fourthly - this is all nonsense.  If you've been in business as long as you purporte to have been, you'd know that all these numbers are bogus and fictitious.  You can bend them to whatever fashion so desired.  The only numbers that really matter are #1) can you drive the next mile safely and #2) what are you doing to prevent the next colliision?  No one (except presumably your family, as long as you don't bore them with long diatribes) cares how hard you work for a living.  So please, give all of us other working Joe's a break my friend - we all want to work less and earn more.  You are preaching to the choir.

 

My suggestion to you is to either find a driving position that pays by the hour so you don't have to drive like a maniac to "keep on earning money by the mile" - or get out of the profession entirely and lower your blood pressure.  Sorry to be so frank, but my friend, but as you so aptly have exhibited, we are all entitled to our opinion.

TheLogDoctor
TheLogDoctor

 @bigred713 Red, let me give you a true example of cheating on logs, "A driver has been driving for 11 hours and has used his extra 3 hours loading and unloading. but he is not tired, so he pulls the "ole" 2nd log book out and continues to drive. 175 miles, down the road a car pulls into his lane, the accident kills the driver. Lawyers pull your cell phone records, shows your GPS movement for a total driving of 15.5 hours without a break. You are charged with Vehicle Manslaughter due to the fact you should not have been there, think it won't happen, I know it has, poor friend of mine is now being sued for civil charges, will loose his home if found guilty." I could go on, but he should not have been there if he was running legal, so is paying your bills more important than someones life? So go ahead and endanger the public with your driving habits, sooner than later, it can happen to you!

Johnny Kargo
Johnny Kargo

 @bigred713 Drivers are a great bunch to work with and the rest of the world would do well to have the work ethic of a trucker.  They work a thousand miles from home, solve problems on their own, work 18 hour days come home and tell anyone that will listen about their day and can't wait to get on the road again tomorrow.  I don't drive for a living today but I still hold a CLD.  I know that in a 13 speed you need to shift before you split on the way up and split before you shift on the way down.   I'm certainly not big business, I'm a working man trying to scrape out a living and hopefully make the driver's job a bit easier.  I've trained over 500 drivers to use elogs and once they get it they all say the same thing; "never going back to a paper log!" Drivers using elogs also tell me they get more done in the day by managing their work load to the available driving hours than they ever did by wiggling the lines in their logbook.  An elog is more or less a glorified stop watch that make it easier to keep track of what you are doing.  Think of it this way, how interested would you be in posting comments on this blog if you had to write them by hand and mail them in?  Your computer makes it easy for you to do this in the same way that an elog makes it easy for a driver to keep his/her logs up to date.  There's a lot more to than this but perhaps this is enough to consider there might be an advantage here. It's like radial tires rather than bias ply, air conditioning instead of an open window, HID headlights, air ride suspension, cruise control and other technology that make the job of a driver a bit more tolerable.  Elogs have a similar advantage.

David McQueen
David McQueen

 @bigred713

 When you reply to a post, address the other poster by name or at least click the "reply" box.

TheLogDoctor
TheLogDoctor

 @Johnny Kargo John, we figure he is now rich and getting richer, he see the future and got out in time, does he need to adopt a tax deduction?

Johnny Kargo
Johnny Kargo

 @TheLogDoctor There is a lot of confusion about the Final Rule compliance date for July 1.  The July 1 final rule only applies to the 34 hour reset.  There is no rule in the CFR regarding EOBRs.  That rule 395.16 was vacated by a US court.  The proof of this in on the FMCSA website.  You will not find any reference to 395.16

TheLogDoctor
TheLogDoctor

 @bigred713 EOBR do not tell you what conditions you should or should not drive in. That is up to the driver, even on paper logs, if you found out you were or are in bad weather, you should stop and locate a safe haven. (DUH) Are they safe, the recording device is, question should be, is the driver safer on E-Logs VS. Paper Logs? Another item, yes I drove, yes I logged and yes my coloring book look good, but was not correct, so on that note, Did I think I was a safe driver? Why yes, so I thought, but really, who am I fooling. That is the reason for E-Logs, you will no longer be able to color the book as you see fit, you will have to follow the letter of the law.

David McQueen
David McQueen

 @Moxie

 Moxie, it appears that your ad hominem critique avoids the main issue, namely Ferro's comments and the pending EOBR NPRM in September (only 6 months past the deadline set by statute).  Personally, I don't that anyone makes typos or uses incorrect grammar;  it's more important to focus on the issues and the gist of the argument. 

bigred713
bigred713

 @Moxie Do you text Moxie?????We can all read between the lines and grammar, spelling and half sentences is well understood by "old Truck drivers". You seem to be one those new professioal ones that want to believe that you are something besides a damn truck driver(if you are a driver at all)

David McQueen
David McQueen

 @Mayflowerloyalist

 If "Big Trucking" is behind the new regulations, you forgot Schneider.  Anyway, freight haulers do well when the economy does well and right now, you've got an administration whose fiscal policies are not only stifling the economy but may well destroy capitalist America.  When the federal government turns socialist, you better be a card-carrying member of the Socialist-Democrat Party or you'll be looking for work in the parking lot at Home Depot with the illegals.

Moxie
Moxie

 @Safety First

 I do not think that you sell EOBR units, currently.  I believe you sell AOBDS units, instead.  Sorry, but allow me to enter this post:  EOBR units, by definition, do not exist, because the agency was forced to remove the regulation that defined them, from the FMCSR.  Words passing between 19,000 Safety Professionals is: If an electronics vendor comes to you and says, "Buy an EOBR from me", do not trust them.  The MAPS-21 legislation requiring electronic logging devices is clearly being outlined in the 112 Congress, Subtitle C - Driver Safety, SEC. 32301. HOURS OF SERVICE STUDY AND ELECTRONIC LOGGING DEVICES.  I believe any new terminology may be, ELD, and a final ruling should be forthcoming.  This legislation is nearly 1000 pages long and is in very small print, and my poor vision takes its toll  after reading many pages of it.  Moxie 

bigred713
bigred713

You sound like a salesman safety for sure. We dont have 100 wagons and 100 drivers to drop and hook and keep moving. We don`t have drivers to relay a load when a driver runs out hours, We live load and live unload and spend hours on docks and that 14 hour clock kills us period. You know it, big cos. know it and gov.knows it. It`s all designed to either run us into big companies or just run us out. the ten hour break/14 hour rule is nothing but a disaster waiting to happen when you mess with live loading/unloading drivers as we gottta run our ass off to try and make a dime once we get loaded or unloaded. A 700 mile run turns into a two day trip and who can make a living running 700 miles in two  days...They say even the playing field, well. let`s start here,,give us the big fuel discount. the big fuel subsidy, and give us some that big money the big cos are getting training these new drivers and then cutting them loose to do it all again for more gov. money....Give us the big discount on tires, truck repairs and also give us 25 new trucks every year like the big Cos. are getting now from gov.  

benjahpete
benjahpete

And that's what I'm talking about......

bigred713
bigred713

 @tvesafety  @bigred713 It`s funny how "safety" people think just because we comment that we are not in compliance,,,,History as of late>>BP 132 over 62 and I`m 58 years old. Married and kids are on their own and i have grandkids. Living arrangements, My wife and i own 30 acres of  pretty ridge farm in a very small community and i turkey hunt and deer hunt when I`m in the mood. Working, I run a trip to Ca. pick up a return(contracts) and then i take from 7 to 10 days off and do the deal again.....My semi and my trailer are paid in full and although i do have my own authority i am not LLC.  I do not lease so all the expense and profit are mine. I keep my equipment in top shape as the shop that does my work on my truck is 3 miles from my house and labor cost is 50 bucks an hour. I drop it there when i come home. My wife is retired and travls on small vacations with me now. We see the US together and spend time in some "hotspots" we havent seen and some we enjoy best.  You see i don`t need to be non compliant sir, I am watching a part of my America being taken over by ruthless big company tactics,(oil for one) Low paying companies that would rather spend their money on lobbyists now in congress than pay their employees what they are worth. Cut throat big companies low balling each other on freight so they cannot afford to pay a good wage and last but not least,,,,Safety co-ordinators like yourself that actaully think these new changes are safe(maybe you know they aren`t) as anyone being forced to get up at 6 am and drive a truck til 8 pm at night isn`t dog tired. 

 

You can blow the smoke up the new guys butts but with the way they are dropping out of the industry in just a few short weeks they apparantly aren`t buying this "safe" ideal either. I come back to the word flexibility again,,,,,,This job isn`t  a job that fares well with drivers being pushed. Oh, you can say we don`t do this but the first one that lays down a couple times when he gets tired and misses a drop will be history and you know this. I just talked to two drivers of a big company that were both fined 500 bucks for rescheduling a drop at a very large company in Ca. the other day. It was the large company receiving that fined this company and you can bet this didn`t go well with them.

 

Have a good day sir, I will, as I`m "SEMI RETIRED" and I don`t have to run illegal to enjoy my life and pay my bills.

 

 

LOL, I see you think commenting from a driver is ranting,,,I see your comment as this

TheLogDoctor
TheLogDoctor

 @David McQueen  @bigred713

 David,

bigred might have been replying to me, but if he was not,  I will give my 2 cents anyway, drivers are or should never be forced to drive when the conditions are "Bad", if a driver feels it is unsafe or a danger to the public, he should stop. Red, as far as my "Veteran" status, 32 years in the "Trucking Industry", (yes I was a driver and still hold a CDL),  I know for sure that paper logs have passed their time, newer drivers are flooding the system, veterans are leaving for warehouse jobs, dispatch jobs and such. Bottom line, as long as the shipper, trucking company and consignees know you will drive over your hours and you allow them to use you, then "YOU" are the one at fault. Hence, E-Logs, now it is  your turn to decide, "Are you able to operate a Class 8 Vehicle safely under the new rules?" 

TheLogDoctor
TheLogDoctor

 @Johnny Kargo

 Agreed John, but with the court case now on the coming of the July 1st start time for HOS change, the final rule might be set in Sept. 2013 on E-Logs goes hand in hand with the governments idea as to what is good for us. Really should be called the 70 Hour Restart Rule, because in real world, not many will have the chance to use this.

Moxie
Moxie

 @bigred713  @Moxie

 Big Red,

Nope. Do not text, and YES, I am and have been a "PROFESSIONAL" truck driver for more than forty years; however I am also college educated with a four year BBA, and four more years of building trades schooling with a degree there as well. I am and have been a Safety Director for many years in the heavy-specialized over-dimensional arena of this great industry. Your sarcasm toward me is understandable.  I believe (forgive me, Mom), that I was conceived in a sleeper unit of my Dad's and his brother's (my uncle) many trucks that they owned jointly. To see me, and unless you watched me get out of my truck, you would never know that  I own and drive trucks.  Do you see any point in protracting this conversation any farther?  I certainly do not!  Regards to you, Moxie.

David McQueen
David McQueen

 @TheLogDoctor  @David McQueen  @bigred713

 The FMCSRs currently state that a driver is not permitted nor can he be required to drive if he's too ill or tired to drive safely.  The problem is that some companies intimidate or coerce the driver to "voluntarily" drive.  If the driver pushes the issue, the company (not ALL) can make the driver's life miserable.  Drivers want to be on the good side of the company so they take all loads and drive hard, creating "good will", thinking that later, the company will reward them.  It's the same in every industry.  The constant give and take between labor and management and the subtle politics, unwritten and unstated, that creates problems.  As in government, there is no utopian form of business.

bigred713
bigred713

 @TheLogDoctor  @Johnny Kargo You summmed it up right here log doctor,,,,the part that says..quote==e-logs goes hand in hand with the governments idea as to WHAT IS GOOD FOR US,,,,,,WHAT A DAMN JOKE 

bigred713
bigred713

 @Moxie I`m 58 yrs old and i do "do this" as my only source of income. Own authority, one truck and My DOT safety score is below 30,,,,,,Not a log book violation in at least 10 years, no tickets, no accidents in as long but it`s not as if the DOT is`t trying to ruin my scores, Lot of inspections n last few years and my score is still low. As for sleeping, I believe when you get sleepy you need a "nap" so this 14 hour rule needs to fly, E-logs need to fly. A truck drivers worst enemy is being pushed and time restraints,,,,so, you guys keep pushing those things and when you run everyone off with this 10 buck hour job, sitting in parking lots more than driving  Type of job you might wish things had gone a little different direction. These kids now days arent gonna sit out in a parking lot when their friends are home watching CSI and playing video games. We ruined our children by letting tree huggers get a foot in the door. Kinda like what the fed gov has done here too.

Moxie
Moxie

 @bigred713

 Big Red,

As I stated...I was speaking in generalities. You bet your boots, that I AM a CERTIFIED FORMALLY EDUCATED SAFETY DIRECTOR, and a FORMALLY EDUCATED CERTIFIED/ADVANCED DRIVING INSTRUCTOR.  There is nothing I enjoy more than having what I call "the old salts" of this industry in my classroom.  We have more fun, and we learn a lot, through our many truck driver stories. I hope that you have many more years of SAFE driving ahead of you, but be aware of CSA, Sleep Apnea, the new medical examination requirements, and MAPS-21, 'cause Mr. Trucker, these are going to affect this industry dearly in the coming months and years.  KEEP ON TRUCKIN', my friend. Moxie. 

bigred713
bigred713

 @Moxie No sense in pursuing this as i do believe the part about you being the safety director,,,,,No 40 year veteran of actually driving a truck would go on this site and and start demeaning us 40 year veterans by making fun of the way we correspond to each others comments ,,,happy trails